NOTE FROM EDITORS: Dear Readers, this is the third of six installments in a series of vox-pop interviews with people in the Democratic Republic of Congo – who come from the communities most affected by the crimes being prosecuted at the ICC. Below is an English transcript of more interviews in the Congolese town of Goma. Relevant photos to the vox-pops and a link to the radio version (in French) on the Interactive Radio for Justice site is located here: http://www.irfj.org/2010/04/2-icc-president-sang-hyun-song-and-icc-prosecutor-luis-moreno-ocampo/. I hope you enjoy reading or listening to these perspectives from the ground about the ICC’s work.
**********
Host: Hello everyone! It is our pleasure to introduce you to our Vox Pop program, a Colombe Radio production, in cooperation with Interactive Radio for Justice. This new program allows you to update your knowledge on international justice. We collect your answers to our questions with our roaming microphone and shed light on these issues with quality participants. What best way when we know that many Congolese are currently prosecuted before the International Criminal Court and that it is your right to know about their situation at the Court. Through this second Vox Pop program, we will go to the second-hand shoes tourist market of Goma and then to the Free University of the Great Lakes, ULIGOM, as well as the sports league roundabout, three popular places for Goma inhabitants. We will ask two questions during this program, the first one being who ever heard of the ICC, and the second relating to persons against whom the Court issued arrest warrants, aside from Jean-Pierre Bemba Gombo, Thomas Lubanga, Matthieu Ngudjolo and Omar El Bashir. Without further ado, follow me to the market:
* * *
Journalist: Hello everyone, and welcome to the second program of Vox Pop. We are now at the second-hand shoes tourist market of Goma, one of the most popular markets of the city. We will ask two questions to Goma inhabitants: first, what do they know about the International Criminal Court and, second, besides those they know have already been arrested by the ICC, whether they know other persons against whom the ICC issued arrest warrants. We will now get started. Hello, sir.
– 1st interviewee: I heard about the ICC a while ago, the ICC is the International Criminal Court.
– 2nd interviewee: I heard about it, but I am not well informed about the ICC.
– 3rd interviewee: The ICC is the International Criminal Court.
– 4th interviewee: The ICC is where people who committed crimes against humanity are being tried.
– 5th interviewee: I do know much but only that the ICC is the International Criminal Court.
– 6th interviewee: The ICC was constituted; it is a Tribunal, the International Criminal Court. It is supposed to try every person who perpetrated war crimes, acts genocide and such kinds of things.
– 7th interviewee: I never heard about it. Huh, I do not know much but I do know that the ICC is the International Criminal Court. This is what I can say.
– 8th interviewee: I can say that the ICC is the International Criminal Court, where people are being tried and other such things.
Journalist: Ladies and gentleman, our program continues and we are now at the sports league roundabout in Goma. As you know, in this Vox Pop program, we ask questions and seek answers from the population. The first question relates to their knowledge of the International Criminal Court, and the second question concerns their knowledge of other persons prosecuted by the Court. Hello, miss.
– 9th interviewee: Hello. Yes I have already heard about the ICC but I do not really know what it is about.
– 10th interviewee: I do not really know. I don’t know.
– 11th interviewee: No idea, I never heard of it.
– 12th interviewee: (…inaudible…)
– 13th interviewee: This is the first I heard about it.
– 13th interviewee: ICC means International Criminal Court.
– 14th interviewee: The ICC is the International Criminal Court, based in The Netherlands, and it is responsible for arresting rebels who destabilise regions facing critical crises.
– 15th interviewee: Yes, on TV. I saw an ad on TV. It is the International Criminal Court.
– 16th interviewee: I don’t remember. I saw it a long time ago.
– 17th interviewee: Not really but I know this is where we try people.
– 18th interviewee: I already heard about the ICC. It is an organisation that deals with people who committed crimes against humanity.
– 19th interviewee: The International Criminal Court is an institution that punishes offenders around the world.
– 20th interviewee: Of course, we know the ICC quite well because it is an office among all the UN offices, which tries to catch those who violated human rights.
Journalist: Ladies and gentlemen, we are continuing our Vox Pop program and we continue to ask Goma inhabitants from various backgrounds, such as sales persons at the touristic market of Goma, students at the university, as well as various other people at the roundabout, and we are now at the Free University of the Great Lakes, ULGL-Goma. Hello miss, have you already heard about the ICC?
– 21st interviewee: Yes, I have heard about the ICC. It is the International Criminal Court.
– 22nd interviewee: I have heard about it but do not know what it is.
– 23rd interviewee: The International Criminal Court is the Court who sentences big offenders.
– 24th interviewee: The ICC is, I think, a criminal court that tries offenders. Huh, this is all I know.
– 25th interviewee: Yes, it is the International Criminal Court.
Journalist: Ladies and gentlemen, this Vox Pop program continues. We are now at the Free University of the Great Lakes of Goma with our roaming microphone and will now ask the same questions to academics of this university: what do inhabitants of Goma from various background know of the International Criminal Court, but also who do they know is under arrest by the Court. Hello, miss. Have you already heard of the ICC?
– 26th interviewee: Hello. Yes, it is the International Criminal Court.
Journalist: Vox Pop continues. We will now see what was the correct answer to the first question concerning people’s knowledge of the ICC. We thank Sang-hyun Song, President and Judge of the International Criminal Court, who answered this question. Let’s listen to him:
– The International Criminal Court is a permanent and independent criminal court, which was created by an international treaty to open investigations and to prosecute persons accused of having committed the gravest crimes affecting the international community as a whole, such as genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes. The ICC does not substitute itself to domestic justice, it only complements it. It can investigate and, when necessary, prosecute and try persons that the state they are citizens of has not investigated because it does not have the capacity or the willingness to do so. The Court is competent for three crimes: war crimes, such as acts committed on a widespread scale, violating international conventions and laws of armed conflicts, such as the conscription of children as soldiers, torture, sexual violence, etc; crimes against humanity, which are crimes committed on a widespread scale against civilian populations, including for instance murder, forced population displacement, sexual slavery or forced prostitution; and genocide, which consists in the commission of criminal acts with the intent to destroy a group on the basis of nationality, race or religion.
ICC President Sang-Hyun Song
Journalist: Ladies and gentlemen, this Vox Pop program continues. We are now at the Free University of the Great Lakes in Goma with our roaming microphone and will now ask university students whether they know other persons the Court has issued arrest warrants against. Hello, miss. Do you know other persons against whom the ICC issued arrest warrants, aside from Jean-Pierre Bemba, Thomas Lubanga and Matthieu Ngudjolo?
– 1st interviewee: Hello. No I do not know anyone else.
– 2nd interviewee: I know Laurent Nkunda.
– 3rd interviewee: No, I have no idea. Besides Bemba and those you named, I do not know anyone else.
– 4th interviewee: Aside from them, I can say that there is also Bosco Ntaganda and Laurent Nkunda.
– 5th interviewee: No I do not know anyone else.
– 6th interviewee: Of course, the ICC issued other international arrest warrants against specific persons, especially against those who destabilised our province of North Kivu, such as Bosco Ntaganda, who was the rebel leader of CNDP, as well as his chief Laurent Nkunda, who also deserve to be prosecuted by the ICC because they both violated human rights.
– 7th interviewee: Yes, I think there is one European dictator, Milosevic, as well many other persons, such as Charles Taylor, I think, and many other persons.
Journalist: Ladies and gentlemen, our Vox Pop program continues and we are now at the sports league roundabout of Goma. As you know, during this Vox Pop program, we ask questions and seek answers from the city inhabitants. The first question consists in knowing what they know of the International Criminal Court and the second relates to other persons the Court is prosecuting. Hello, miss. Do you know other persons the ICC has issued arrest warrants against, aside from Jean-Pierre Bemba, Thomas Lubanga or Matthieu Ngudjolo?
– 8th interviewee: Hello. I know Laurent Nkunda.
– 9th interviewee: Yes, such as General Bosco Ntaganda, Laurent Nkunda, the Rwandan President, Kagame, Paul.
– 10th interviewee: Aside from Jean-Pierre Bemba, there are people from Congo [who were arrested] such as Bosco Ntaganda.
– 11th interviewee: There is Jean-Pierre Bemba, there is Ngudjolo, I do not know the full name. There is Thomas Lubanga and others.
– 12th interviewee: No, I regret, if I knew I would tell you.
– 13th interviewee: I only know Mr. Ntaganda.
– 14th interviewee: I hear a lot about Ntaganda, Laurent Nkunda.
Journalist: Vox Pop continues its path and, we continue to ask Goma inhabitants from various backgrounds and we are now at the Free University of the Great Lakes of Goma, ULGL. Hello, miss. Do you know other persons, besides Jean-Pierre Bemba, Thomas Lubanga and Matthieu Ngudjolo, against whom the International Criminal Court issued arrest warrants?
– 15th interviewee: No, I do not know anyone.
– 16th interviewee: I do not know enough people, but I can name Thomas Lubanga and Jean-Pierre Bemba.
– 17th interviewee: Of course yes, for instance, Jean-Pierre Bemba, who is a candidate before the ICC. There is also Bosco Ntaganda, as well as the former Liberian President.
– 18th interviewee: I can name Laurent Nkunda, for instance.
– 19th interviewee: Yes, I know Thomas Lubanga.
– 20th interviewee: No, I have no idea.
Journalist: To shed light on this question and get details in order to bring your more information we had the opportunity to talk to Luis Moreno Ocampo who willingly answered our question, in spite of his busy schedule:
– In addition to these five arrest warrants, we have eight pending arrest warrants issued by the Court, which are the following: Bosco Ntaganda for crimes committed in Ituri, Joseph Kony and four other LRA leaders for crimes committed in Uganda. In Darfur, in addition to the arrest warrant against Omar El Bashir, we are prosecuting the former minister Ahmed Harun, as well as Janjaweed militia leader Ali Kushayb, who are indicted for crimes against humanity and war crimes.
* * *
Host: Here is our happy ending; we are now reaching the end of our second Vox Pop program. Thank you for having followed our program; we also thank the authorities of the International Criminal Court who answered our questions in spite of their busy schedules. We also thank everyone who willingly answered our questions, at the market, the university and sports league roundabout of Goma. If you have any suggestions, comments or proposals on this program, you can contact us at 081 019 92 76 or 085 31 11 945. You can also email us at rtccolombe@yahoo.fr (repeat). Vox Pop programs are also available on the Internet at www.irfj.org (repeat). This program was produced by Colombe Radio, in cooperation with Interactive Radio for Justice. Alban Manengo Mbengala was presenting, and Romain Semakuba was our sound engineer. Our next appointment is next Tuesday at 8:30am and Thursday at 8pm. Ciao!
[Translated and transcribed by Sandrine Gaillot]