When a defense witness said that Liberian rebel forces killed a wounded Prisoner of War (POW) because he was still considered an enemy soldier, judges in the trial of former Liberian President took a keen interest today. (It is against international law to execute prisoners of war who have laid down their arms and who have not first received a fair trial).
“We killed the first wounded prisoner of war because he was an enemy soldier, and he exchanged fire with our men,” said Timeh Edward Zammy, a former member of Mr. Taylor’s rebel group, the National Patriootic Front of Liberia told the Special Court for Sierra Leone.
Mr. Zammy was referring to the first prisoner of war that was captured along the Liberian border with Ivory Coast in 1989 because he had had attempted to exchange fire with the rebels. He said the POW was among Armed Forces of Liberia (AFL) personnel sent by former Liberian president Samuel Doe to prevent the NPFL from taking the Liberian town of Gbutuo in Nimba County.
His statement drew questions from two judges: Justice Teresa Doherty and presiding judge, Justice Julia Sebutinde.
“Did you kill a Prisoner of War?” Justice Doherty asked the witness.
“The Prisoner of War was the soldier, one of the soldiers who exchanged fires with our men, and he was an enemy. He never surrendered,” the witness said.
“Please answer my question,” Justice Doherty said again.
“I said yes, he was an enemy who attacked us,” Mr. Zammy said.
“Mr. Witness, the question was simply, did you kill the Prisoner of War?” the presiding judge, Justice Sebutinde asked.
“Yes, he was killed because he was an enemy, a soldier who attacked us,” the witness responded.
“I did not ask you why, we just wanted to hear whether the prisoner was killed or not killed. That was the only question,” Justice Sebutinde pressed the witness further.
The witness eventually said that the prisoner was killed.
Mr. Taylor is on trial for allegedly providing support to Revolutionary United Front (RUF) rebels in the commission of war crimes, crimes against humanity and other serious violations of international humanitarian law committed in the territory of Sierra Leone from 1996 to 2002. To prove their case against Mr. Taylor, prosecutors have sought to raise issues concerning the commission of similar crimes in Liberia when Mr. Taylor was leader of the NPFL and later president of Liberia. Prosecutors have tried to establish that crimes committed in Liberia were similar to or the same as those committed by the RUF in Sierra Leone. Mr. Taylor’s defense team, however, has rejected all allegations against him, and has sought to present a case which focuses on Mr. Taylor’s role as a peacemaker and a leader who was interested only in the welfare of his people and of neighboring countries.
Mr. Zammy, in continuing his discussion on how the Liberian civil war was conducted told the court that when the NPFL attacked Liberia in 1989, the military plan was to overthrow the government of former president Doe within 72 hours. This, he said, was not possible because one of the NPFL Special Forces who had been trained in Libya betrayed the revolution. According to the witness, Sam Tozay, a Special Forces officer, disclosed all their military plans to former president Doe.
“Sam went and met Doe, and then revealed all our secrets to Samuel Kayan Doe–how we were trained, where we were trained, who is leading us, our strength, our total number, he explained everything, and then the men we had even sent inside, he explained every thing about them–how they used to dress, the types of signals they had on themselves as an identifying symbol, the way they were dressing in a special commando form, so then the information had leaked. And they started arresting those guys.” Mr. Zammy said.
The plan was to launch a simultaneous attack on all military installations in and around Monrovia at 5am on December 25, 1989. Among the military installations attacked, the witness said, were Camp Nama, Camp Sheiffling and the Barclay Training Center.
Mr. Zammy’s testimony continues on Monday.
GREAT Day for the Prosecution!!
Keep talking witnesses Please keep “defending”.
Thanks, Zammy.
The true will set you free…you NPFL folks killed prisoners of war, university students who had their ID cards, innocent krahns and Mandingos, west Africans, ECOMOG, innocent Liberians, etc. You folks killed indiscriminately and for pleasure.
Your speaking the true will set you free.
continue to weaken Taylor’s defense.
Peace
Davenport,
You and Fallah Menjor crack me up. When the witnesses say something infavor of Mr. Taylor they are considered liars from hell by the two of you. When they say something which may be pro prosecution all of a sudden they are as truthful as angels.
Aki, when these witnesses speak truth,it becomes glittering because it is the truth! But when they lie, it becomes angering and hurtful. This is the point you are missing from Davenport and Fallah! Peace, Brother.
J. Fallah menjor,
Bless your heart on this one…and I hope Aki rethinks his views.
Thanks.
Peace.
Another Charles Taylor witness Timeh Edward Zammy has just thrown his shoes in his own mouth, and the judges reactions can’t be under stated, this man Charles Taylor was in bed with the RUF from camp Tajura in Libya till at the end his presidency, and summary executions without due process of their captured prisoners of war was a common ritual, which in itself is a gross violation of international human rights, this man CT has human blood on his hands and will be found guilty and QUILTY it is!!!
Ms Teage,
I am a realist; I call it, as I see it. I strongly disagree that Liberians are divided. Maybe Liberians are divided on this site, but not in Liberia. Most Liberians at home are not up to date with the trial.
Correlation amongst Liberians at home is at its highest peak then any time in history. Conflicts between the so-called Americo Liberians vs. the so-called traditional Liberians rarely exist. There are more traditional Liberians holding key positions in government than their Americo Liberian counterparts. It has been this way since 1980 when President Tolbert and his men were executed. Furthermore, the average Joe in Liberia has no idea what this trial is about. They have been precluded from media access by the government.
Liberians in the Diasporas should and MUST understand that this trial is not about the atrocities committed in Liberia; rather, it is about atrocities in Sierra Leone. Hypothetically, if Kabba was on trial for the role he played in Liberia crisis, I don’t think that you will have so many Sierra Leoneans against Kabba as Liberians against President Taylor. The problem with Liberians, we are neither nationalist nor patriotic. We are self-centered and selfish. That’s sad.
The west is very good at dividing a nation and its people. The west propaganda machine has succeeded in dividing us (Liberians) mainly in Diasporas, as if; this case is about atrocities committed in Lib. Which its not! Most of us who are defending President Taylor are not doing so because we believe he is a saint. Our reason for defending this man is, because the charges leverage against him is ludicrous.
Consequently, Liberians in the Diasporas, we need to mobilize, unite, and demonstrate demanding justice. We should speak with one voice. We should standup and tell the World that President Taylor and all those that were responsible for atrocities in Liberia should be persecuted, rather than, prosecution Taylor for alleged crimes in Sierra Leone.
“Yes we Can.”
Call it as you see it dear,
But I was just back home and I got to see another side so it’s ok to disagree, but these were my observations. I did not make that statement simply because of this site.
And I’m as realistic as they come.
Big B,
We understand what this trial is about (Sierra Leone) and not Liberia. We as Liberians on this site are divided on principles, atleast that how i see it. The late Martin Luther King Jr. said in his Letter from a Birmingham Jail “INJUSTICE ANYWHERE IS INJUSTICE EVERYWHERE.” Crimes were committed by Taylor on the people of Sierra Leone by giving Foday Sankor and the RUF a launching pad and troops to facilitate the initial attack. Whether that covers the indictment timeframe, is inconsequential to me. The underlying implication of this trial is to prevent future wars that holds a whole subregion or continent hostage. These civil wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone dealth a blow to Africans as a whole in resources, infrastructures and intellectual capital. Majority of the the already illiterate population of both countries have multiplied. Most kids in these countries had their formative years of creating dreams and ambitions taken away by wars that lasted over a decade. The economies that were in ruins due to corruption worsened with the wars. Investors now have to evaluate a little harder before investing in these trouble spots. The development in Ghana is somewhat a by-product of the wars in Liberia and Sierra Leone. So before supporters of Taylor minimize their intuition, let it be known that this trial is for the protection of future generations, the continent and the world atlarge.
We are demonstrating here for justice that Taylor should be held for crimes he committed against humanity, be it Sierra Leone or Liberia. If your defination of nationalism and patriotism is defending a Liberian (Taylor) who committed war crimes in two countries, i think most fair minded Liberians will want no part of that label.
Big B,
Thanks so much for sharing this very insightful article. However, in line with the site’s policy relating to copy rights and sharing of information from third parties, we’ll be grateful if you could supply us the link to the article. Once that is done, it will be posted right away.
Thanks,
Alpha
Did the witness did reall understand the question from the judges, if the prisoner of war never surrendered. A prisoner of war is always one that has surrendered, but this one being mentioned never surrendered, what does this mean. Does it mean this was a figitive prisoner of war or was this a prospective prisoner of war. When it comes to killing, it is not a strange thing to shot or kill soldiers who are not yet prisoner of wars. Soldiers can be shot at an ambush notwithstanding weather they are armed or defenceless for as long as it is at war but immediately they are caught as prisoners of war then it is against war ethics to shot or kill them. Now what was this kind of prisoner that never surrendered, and what circumstances led to him being killed? May be those familier with war crimes can explain.
Genke,
Good anology. Tell them again…Guys, could you please take some time and define the word prisoner of war…ms. Teage, can a single barrer commander become a Judge???? Aye!!!! God!!! could you people put on your thinking caps please…
It is amazing the twisted logic by some as to why Taylor shouldn’t be tried by the Special Court.
For some, it is the ridiculous claim that this trial is politically motivated and a mean by the US and the UK to get rid of Taylor. For others, it is the funny argument that Taylor should not be try for crimes committed against Sierra Leone since he has not be tried for crimes committed against Liberia. Some even go as far as saying that Taylor shouldn’t be tried because he alone didn’t commit war crimes.
Someone even went as far as giving an analogy with a robot and its maker. In this person fanatical attempt to see Taylor free, this person forgot that a robot unlike Taylor is not an intelligent being and such can’t be held responsible for any damages it causes. Unwittingly, this supporter of Taylor has just hit the crux of the issue that Taylor’s war was never about Liberation, democracy, rule of laws, justice and fair play rather it was all about the quest for raw power, illicit wealth and personal aggrandizement. Why will anyone who claim to be serious about nation building, entrenchment of unity and promoting patriotism and nationality chose warring tribes to promote his ‘lofty’ goals? Is it a coincidence that all the educated, influential and knowledgeable members of the NPFL from Nimba and those prominent Nimbians (people were being told by his latest witness that he came to liberate) who sought refuge in Taylor’s controlled areas lost their lives (most of them, under mysterious circumstances)? Why will anyone wanting to be taken seriously used children and ignoramus to pursue his so-called war of Liberation? The Uncomfortable truth is that Taylor only took advantage of the illiteracy, ignorance and disunity of our people to satisfy his blood thirstiness for raw power and illicit wealth. He was willing to go any length, including silencing anyone who dare question his authority, to make himself a tin-god to be worshipped by our poor, ignorant and illiterate masses.
It is only out of abysmal ignorance will anyone question the Special Court right to try Taylor. Anyone is entitle to claim that Taylor is not guilt of the crimes leveled him against by the Special Court but it is naivety of the highest order to say that the court has no case against Taylor. The well educated and well informed Judges of the special court are not foolish to sat for years on the Taylor’s trial if there were no case for Taylor to answer to. Whether Taylor is guilt or not, it is the Judges call to make, not a decision that any members of this forum can make, but it is crystal clear that Taylor was no bye-stander in the Sierra Leonean war.
In desperate attempts to see Taylor a free man and to find solace from the bitter truth that Taylor is a mass murderer, rapist and looter, some have come up with conspiracy theories to explain Taylor’s indictment. Most popular of these conspiracy theories is that this trial is politically motivated and it is a mean by the US and the UK to get rid of Taylor. Most astonishingly, some of the chief proponents of this theory are former Liberians (lost citizenship by joining a foreign army ) serving in the US Army. It puzzling that these guys don’t know how the US or UK carry out reign change. The CIA and MI6 don’t operate through court rooms. I still can’t understand why this megalomaniac and his supporters are yet to understand that he (Taylor) is too inconsequential for the US and UK to waste their time and resources on a Court process in order to get rid of him. It still beats my imagination why this midget and political dwarf and his supporters refuse to accept the fact that their man didn’t have monopoly over violence. The Soonest Taylor’s supporters stop deluding themselves that their man was too powerful to the extent that it has to take the US and UK to get rid of him the better for them. The fact that Taylor and his supporters refuse to accept is that committing heinous crimes is no mark of intelligent; holding a whole subregion at ransom is no mark of statesmanship. On the contrary, these are marks of barbarism. What LURD demonstrated was that Taylor didn’t have monopoly over violence. Lurd used Taylor’s bastard and criminal tactics to give him a dose of his own medicine. So, Taylor and his supporters should stop blaming the West for Taylor’s demise.
Is it not comical that a man who did all to get the support of the US and UK, including squander his poor country resources on Public Relation, can now be saying all the worst thing about the US and UK? Anyway, attributing the failure of their disastrous policies to the Western World have always been the trademark of African dictators.
The most disjoined argument against Taylor’s indictment is the claim that Taylor shouldn’t be try for his supposed crimes against the people of Sierra Leone but rather he should be tried for crimes committed against the Liberian people. It is an understatement to say such argument is tantamount to saying that a parents whose child has been murdered should not take the murderer to a court of law because this murderer has murdered all his own brothers and sisters but the murderer’s parent are yet to take legal actions against their own son. Such argument can only be hatched by people who are either abysmally ignorant of the rule of laws and International criminal laws or a lover of murderers walking freely around.
The Sierra Leoneans would have been very stupid to wait for, expect or ask the very people who sang ” you kill my pa, you kill my ma, I will vote for you” to try Taylor for the crimes he perpetrated against them. The fact that we Liberians can either reward murderers, rapists and looters with positions of trust or buried our heads in the sand and pretend that nothing ever went wrong in our country demonstrates our level of intelligent. The mere fact that Liberians can still be arguing about Taylor’s criminality shows how unenlightening we as a people remain. If anyone ever sought the impact poverty, ignorance and illiteracy can have on a people, all that person need to do is see Liberia and the psyche of Liberians.
There are those who say Taylor should not be tried because he alone didn’t commit war crimes. Some even stretch this illogic as far as saying if Taylor must be tried than so must Bush, Blair and Kabbah. I’m surprise such person has not call for the trial of God himself since he created Taylor and all men and since the Almighty God has the power to stop all this crimes before they are committed but chose not to. People only come up with such silly argument either out of complete ignorance of the procedures leading to indictment. Taylor is being tried by the Special Court because the prosecutors believe that he holds a primary responsibility for the carnage in that country and the court is hearing the case because those fine, well schooled and experience judges are convinced that Taylor has a case to answer to. It is absurdity of the highest order of anyone to expect the Prosecutors to indict Bush or Blair. It is the duty of the Iraqi government, United Nations, the UK and US to prosecute Bush and Blair if there is a case against them. That is not the duty of the Special Court. Besides, I just don’t see the logic in the suggestion that a criminal should be set free because other criminals are at large.
Of course he was an enemy that is why he is a prisoner of war, POW duh!!!! I’m glad the judges knew the laws of the land NO KILLING POWs even if they’re enemies (which they always are).
Why would you take your own fighter as a prisoner of war.
He was enemy, and he was executed without a trail, very typical of ALL the rebel factions then NPFL killed POWs so did ULIMO LURD LPC, etc…
You’re allowed as an ordinary citizen to rise up and defend your country against a “horrrible” leader, but you’re not allowed to kill POWs, without a trail, you’re not allowed to kill civilians for their tribe, you’re not allowed to rape women, you’re not allowed to steal the properties of civilians, youre not allowed to systematically target CIVILIANS to torture, and brutalize, you’re not allowed to recruit children to fight…………..
Why are we jumping….did the soldier SURRENDED?? I don’t see anywhere in Mr. Zammy’s testimony where the soldier was captured and while in their postion killed. I think the WRONG CHOICE of WORDS by Mr. Zammy. Eventhough, the soldier was wounded, he was still able to get off few shots before been killed. And Genke, I do agree with you and hope the defense will clean it up…..the man didn’t UNDERSTAND the question as in it’s context…..I will say due to his education level and thinking.
Ms. Teage,
Been an enemy does not make one PRISON OF WAR….when are captured or surrended, then you become one…..can you point out where that soldier fits??
Davenport,
I agreed with you that some of the killings were carried out for JUST BECAUSE, but all sides did it, so to blame Mr. Taylor is the ONLY troop is dead wrong; plus I still don’t see the connection to the charges you claimed to WEAKEN the defense.
Jikagoe,
Were there any prisoners exchanges when the war ended?? NO!!! Simply put, no side took prison, no one was ever captured….they fought til death period!!! I have not heard of any fighter waving the white flag was killed. So how does one then become POW???
Noko4,
The witness did say that they captured the wounded solder and interogated him in order to get information from him with the promise that they were going to take him for treatment in Ivory Coast. But he was killed after he has finished giving them the information they needed due to the fact that the Special forces that captured him where few in number and that they do not have the resources to take him all the way to Ivory Coast at that time. So they felt the best thing to do was to kill him.
For me, as far as the charges in this trial is concerned, this hew and cry about the killing of this prisoner of war is totally unwaranted. this case has nothing to do with what happend in Liberia. Infact the prosecution did not lead much evidence about the conduct of the NPFL during its case in chief. It was after the beginning of the defence case that they brought Liberia into the case and started emphasising the conduct of NPFl during the war in order to try and link it with the conduct of the RUF. Killing an AFL prisioner of war is not one of the charges in this case and this does not implicate and of the modes of liability that the prosecution has cahrged Mr Taylor with.
Also, I honestly think Apha over emphasised and probably exaggerated the issue of the death of the POW as if the exchanges between the Judges and the witness took a considerable time during the proceedings while in reality the judges were only trying to get clarification on the matter. Apha also presented it as if the witness was trying to evade the question by not answering it clearly. But when you consider the fact that the witness is testifying in Liberian English, one has to remember that there is also the challenge of translation which may not help the witness to get the question clearly. Having gone through the transcript myself, I think ther are many things in the Witnesses evidence that would have added more substance to the summary than that headline Apha chose in his summary which actually detractes readers from many of the points covered in the witness’s testimony.
I will advice fellow readers to take time to read the transcripts of the proceedings as much as possible in order to get an informed understanding of what transpired in the court.
Sam,
I MIGHT have missed that part of his testimony and stand CORRECTED…..But like I said, there were NO EXCHANGED of prison which tells me…FIGHT TIL DEATH.
Noko,
Let us not speak for the witness. His own statement is emphatic – prisoner of war.
Ms.Teage,
in anybodys right mind; pray tell me, under what uniform code of military justice would a single barrer commander put an armed captured killer on trial. We are living in the real world ok… Did you follow the story well? Was there any kind of established facility to keep this tyrant that was picked up? Are you saying here that few invading commandos are capable of establishing a military court after capturing a semi-town? If I was the single barrer commander, that doe killer was going to die..after all, they killed our armless and peaceful civilians. So the time to apply MOSES LAW woulr have just started..thankyou
Charles Taylor indoctrinated most of his “liberators”, if not all, in a way to evade answers to questions post to them. But they are not as smart is their boss. Zammy needed only to agree that “they” killed 99% of their POWs, except you were from the major tribes that were “so-called shareholders” in Taylor’s revolution.
Look, there was nothing so different in the actions of NPFL and other groups in Liberia to the RUF actions in Sierra Leone. In fact, the RUF learned their cruelty from Taylor, only that they went a little more beyond bond.
Big B, you nailed this on the head. Alot of those that are against Mr. Taylor is against him because of what some of his men did in Liberia. Blinded by that, they have really forgotten about the core of the prosecution case. SIERRA LEONE…
Did Mr. Zammy testimony convinced you that Taylor is responsible for what happened in Sierra Leone? Ms. Teage, Davenport, Salis and other? Connect to dots for me because I have yet to see the connection.
Davenport said, Taylor killed innocent krahn and mandingo Liberians, who killed the people at Lutheran Church, the UN compound, Carter Camp, Rev. Mason, Tecumsi Roberts, Archie Green and his father, Vanja Richards and I can go on and on but this is not about what happened in Liberia because we all took sides in this conflict and crimes were committed by all parties.
These unrepentant underlings!
They’re desperately trying to defend their commander, but apparently unaware of the legal ramifications of most of their statements on record, they instead seem to be sinking Taylor in the QUICK SAND OF JUSTICE!! I have to say, and I’m as far as they come from a Taylor admirer, but after intelligently taking the witness stand, and valiantly attempting to debunk the prosecution’s accusations against him, Taylor probably should have also thought harder about the array of defense witnesses that he picked to take the stand for him. While I’m sure a person like Zammy proved himself in every brutal way possible to be a faithful underling in the jungle-like NPFL arena, I guess this arena of civilized rules is probably way too sophisticated for him.
Some people here have been shouting: “The is no evidence. Acquit Taylor!”
Well I hold a contrary opinion and I exhort Zammy to tell the judges the truth! Tell them how it was a pervasive NPFL practice to kill POWs…even go further and tell them about all the innocent civilians the NPFL killed! And as a matter of fact, the truth about Taylor’s connections to the RUF and lets get this over with and see Taylor, like his son, put away for life!!!
Shakazulu,
What this witness testified about was Liberia….and reading the charges, I don’t see any relating to Liberia….Please STOP blowing SMOKE in our eyes.
Ms Teage
I told you before that you need to change your way of thinking. What did the west do with all of you haters of CGT mind? This trial is about SL not Liberia. This case against CGT is a personal vandetta from high powers. They want CGT out because he never give them our nation’s wealth and resources. CGT will be free and all of you haters will watch him walk a free man. I know some of y’all haters will get a heart attack on that day. But don’t worry, I have some pressure pills to calm all of you down.
You said it all Marcel, many people are only hear because they can’t wait to have these conspirators win. I said that sometimes ago, that this trial is not about seeking justice. It’s about revenging against Taylor for not giving what the big boys wanted for which they sent him to oust Doe.
I don’t have love for Taylor, but I respect him simply because he was a man enough to say no to those that built him up. He proved a stronger Africa by not allowing anyone to dictate him during his time of leadership. Many fools would have just done as the were told to do, but not Taylor.
My admiration for his determination and courage must not be misinterpreted as a support for Taylor, please. If this case was about crimes commited in Liberia during those 14yrs of war, trust me, I’d have a different tune on this blog. But its about SL, and most of these nonsense charges against him will not work because the man knew what he was doing. The judges are sad and stressed out because they just can knock Taylor down for what he’s been accused of. Shame on them for wasting money and time trying to punish a man for simply being man enough.
Good once again Marcel, you said it all!!!
Marcel,
I assure you that I need no drugs to fix my thinking process…
regards
Helen,
“We need to sit under the Palava Hut and genuinely talk things out. We need to encourage the involvement of our elders and traditional leaders to give the red kola and smoke the peace pipes. That is how we make peace Liberian style not some tribunal that does not truly reflect our culture or traditions.” Wow! I have never come across any statement as shocking as the aforementioned quotes.
Share Kola nuts and smoke the peace pipes with mass murderers and rapists who have shown no remorse of Conscience. Rather then using as the TRC mechanism to confess their evils and seek forgiveness these cowards went there to boast about their heinous crimes against humanity yet you want us to smoke the peace pipe.
Why don’t you also suggest that in the name of peace and promotion of our culture and traditions of impunity we should close down all prisons in Liberia , disband our judiciaries and set all prisoners free?
Ms Tracey and Mr. Alpha, do you have any clue as to how many more witnesses need to continue the same denials on behalf of the Defense Team? The defense team, I believe, should rest since there is mountain of evidence clearing taylor’s involvement in any atrocities in Sierra Leone and Liberia by his NPFL rebels. We are not going to here anything better than has been said and is left with the Judges to decide. Except if we are still waiting to hear from BENJIMIN YEATEN the vice commander of the Angel of Death, taylor!
j.fallal menjor,
Without going into whether any of Mr. Taylor’s defense witnesses are lying or not (that will be left with the judges to determine), the defense today indicated to the judges that an optimistic position for the conclusion of the defense case will be end of August or early September this year. Again, note that that is an estimate, barring any unforeseen circumstances. The judges, however, indicated that they have the authority to order that the witness’s list be reduced if they think that such list is too long.
Hope this helps for general information purposes and not to suggest in anyway that the witness’s are lying or saying the truth, or that Mr. Taylor’s defense should be cut short or prolonged.
Alpha
Those condemning the witness and his testimony lack the critical knowledge to understand the credibility that witness has provided. By the witness voluntarily making such statement gives the defense an upper hand here:
1. The witness looks credible and does not seems to have been coach by defense lawyers.
2. If the prosecution uses this statement to discredit Mr. Taylor then the prosecution will have to consider the witness other statements in defense of Mr. Taylor.
So from a defense perspective, while this statement was not a good thing for the witness to say. The defense can exploit it to indicate the truthfulness and credibility of the witness. That the witness was under no obligation to lie and this was why he spoke the truth.
Jose Rodreguez ( THE GREAT GENERAL FIX IT),
It’s about time to straighten things up . We are now about to free mr. Taylor. The people of Liberia can’t wait …..